WeatherInsights®: The Weather Channel Blog
July 14, 2007
Local winds, sunrise/sunset, and contrails
I'll soon get back to the business of analysis and commentary on meatier topics, but first a few more items from my recent trip to Canada which I forgot to mention in my second post about it.
There are winds that are specific to a given area, ranging from seabreezes to foehns, and I may have encountered such a local phenomenon while in Tadoussac, Quebec. In my first post I mentioned that a fierce wind suddenly sprang up overnight and I didn't know why.
I subsequently read A visitors guide to Tadoussac by Bennie Beattie, in which he refers to "the noroit, that infamous northwest wind which sweeps with sudden violence or blows for days down the Saguenay." (Noroit is also the title of a 1976 French film.)
We were a bit inland from the Saguenay fjord so I don't know if that was what we experienced, but there was an overall northwest flow, and whether or not I encountered the "infamous noroit," it's always rewarding to learn something new about the weather.
Another interesting thing about the trip was the degree to which the time of sunrise changed but that of sunsets did not. All the way from Atlanta to northern Quebec, the sun set within about 15 minutes either side of a quarter to nine Eastern Daylight Time. That's because what time we gained for a later sunset by going north within a couple weeks of the summer solstice, we lost by going farther east. Sunrises, though, were a whole different story!
Sunrise at my home in the Atlanta area on the day we left: 6:28am EDT. Sunrise when we were in Schefferville, Quebec: 3:57am EDT! Civil twilight began at 3:01, and we were far enough north that with no clouds the sky retained a bit of light near the horizon all night. Not broad daylight like when we were north of the Arctic Circle in Alaska in the summer of '93, but exciting to see nonetheless.
Of course, the flip side at Schefferville is the duration of only a little more than seven hours from sunrise to sunset in December along with the sun not able to eke very far above the horizon. The farther north or south from the tropics one goes, the more dramatic the solar difference between the summer and winter solstices.
There's nothing unusual about a photograph of a jet leaving a contrail high overhead in the atmosphere, except that this photo below was taken at a desolate town far north in Canada. And there were other condensation trails following nearly the same track in the sky as this one, suggesting that there's a regular flight path (commercial, not private or military?).
There are flights from the U.S. to Asia which go north via the Arctic rather than west over the Pacific, but there are no large cities anywhere near Schefferville to its east or west (I'm pretty sure that's the direction in which these contrails were oriented, not north-south), which left me wondering where these planes were flying from and to.
Maybe London to Seattle, two fairly-far-north major cities, although it'd have to be an arcing flight path because they're only at around 51 1/2 and 47 1/2 degrees north latitude, respectively, and this photo was taken at around 54 1/2 degrees north. Also, there were a couple of contrails back-to-back within a short period of time, and there certainly aren't direct flights every few minutes between those two cities ...
UPDATE JULY 15 - MONDAY EVENING
Thanks for the feedback about the flight paths. Although I've been to much of North America, I've not flown to/from Europe, and although I'm familiar with the great circle concept, and made reference to an arcing flight path, I didn't realize such routes had quite that much of a curve (flights I've been on within the Lower 48, say between Atlanta and the West Coast, generally arc relatively slightly). Also, keep in mind that what I found interesting was not just that there was a flight path overhead that far north, but also that it was nearly due E-W and there was more than one contrail back-to-back taking almost precisely the same path.
I did a little more investigating, independently discovering the same great circle mapping website that the anonymous poster provided a link to. (There are other such sites as well.) In playing around with it, the best match I could find for an E-W flight path over my location based on a quick check was, as John M. suggested, this route from Madrid to Los Angeles. However an equally quick check of a flight-booking website shows no direct flights between those cities. The closest route with a direct flight over Schefferville appears to be London to Minneapolis, although it's not quite E-W at that point. The great circle routes from Paris to L.A. and London to L.A. are a bit to the north, but within the realm of possibility if the great circle is not followed exactly or if there was a bit of a deviation for weather. All of those sets of cities have flights whose times are plausible for having passed overhead westbound during late morning EDT.
By the way, I'm not trying to suggest there's anything untoward or super-mysterious about what I saw (the flight paths or the contrails). Having never been that far north in eastern Canada before, and having never flown on a trans-Atlantic flight, where the planes were traveling from/to simply piqued my curiosity.
Comments on this entry (19)
The chemtrails are real. I live in SF Bay area and there are LOTS! Saw a plane at high altitude dispensing one yesterday an hour before sunset, just as I was taking my dog for a walk. My wife recorded some of it before the camera battery died, will post on YT when I get a chance. It was huge, went from northeast to southwest across the Bay Area, could not see the far end! Also saw two other jets at similar or higher altitude with normal contrails (which dissipate in a minute or two). The chemtrail lasted at least an hour, as it was being laid when I started walking my dog an hour before sunset and when I returned about an hour later was still there, albeit slowly spreading. Was able to educate a neighbor about them by pointing out the differences in the contrails. I do not recall seeing these years ago, only in the past 15 years or so. Why are the meteorologists silent or in denial? They do exist. They are not contrails. Do the research. I understand the major lamestream media is in cahoots and refuses to talk about it, but this stuff is slowly poisoning us - why don't you speak up? Don't your families and children mean anything?
Posted by Anonymous | November 16, 2011
These Chemtrails are sick!! I'm so tired of them stealing our sun from us!! They're playing GOD!..GOD help them for doing this!! Where's the media on this? (The good/true media) I hope people are hounding the Air Force about this also!! I know I'm doing my part to spread the word about these Chemical-trails!! May God expose this, and help us!!
Posted by Anonymous | March 2, 2010
There is a total difference between "contrails" and "chemtrails". I am so tired of the obvious reality of chemtrails and how they mess up our skyline pretty much every day now and take beautiful blue sky and make it this sick white layer over Los Angeles and NO WEATHER PERSON TALKS ABOUT IT! What are you paid off by the government!? The white lines criss crossing the sky and then expanding and then all is a gross white cover over the city is pathetic! Trying to make it not rain and make people sick? How much does it cost to send just one plane up of tax payer money!???
Posted by Rob | February 19, 2010
Wes, Thanks for your thoughts. (Fyi, I generally don't see the comments before they go through the publishing process.)
Posted by Stu Ostro | July 19, 2007
Stu, I hope you know I was kidding when I made those wisecracks about the contrails a couple of days ago. On another topic - - A few of us were a bit disturbed by the person who anonymously posted that one woman broadcaster was "hotter" than another, and that she had a better pesonality too. I'm sure you saw that post a few days ago, on another of the TWC forecaster's entry. I know that 99% of us hope that those who watch TWC and particpate in this excellent blog site, watch it to learn about weather and/or to help others learn about weather. NOT to salivate over "hot chicks," etc. Naturally the woman who was demeaned is almost sure to have had her feelings hurt. I am certain that you will not post this comment because it would further hurt her feelings. But at your discretion, maybe you would like to pass the word around to those not directly affected, there at TWC? In particular to those who screen or filter the blog postings. Obviously this is up to you. Best regards, Wes Alderson.
Posted by Wes Alderson | July 17, 2007
I'm so glad I read your blog. I always thought the word contrail meant something completely different.
Posted by Chris Segar | July 16, 2007
Mr. Ostro, very nice article. I am glad to see no posts by conspiracy nuts saying that freemasons (like myself) is spying on others and doing mind-control with chemtrails, LOLOLOL!!!! -Shawn
Posted by WxTopic.com | July 16, 2007
Hi Stu, I became fascinated and determined to solve the contrails mystery after reading this blog story. I'm convinced that Schefferville is under several major flight paths for various destinations, many of which probably do not involve travel to London. I mocked up a quick map for your reference if you're interested in seeing it. All flights do travel in an arching flight path, and I recently took 2 trips to London from Both Boston Logan Airport and New York's JFK and the airline displayed flight maps for both flights for the passengers to watch on the TV in front of them. I used those flight paths as a point of reference as I remeber exactly where they crossed land going into the Atlantic (over St. John's) and coming off the Atlantic (over Shannon, Ireland). In this map, I also projected a direct Seattle-to-Londong flight which I believe most likely archs too far northward beyond Schefferville, so I don't think those were the flights you were seeing. My assumption is, you were most likely seeing flights from Chicago, Detroit, maybe Minneapolis (to London), and possibly St. Louis and/or Los Angeles. Desinations could have ranged anywhere from Oslo, Stockholm, Glasgow, Berlin, Amsterdam, London, and Paris. E-mail me if you're interested in seeing the map! -Jim
Posted by JIm OBrien | July 16, 2007
Don't forget that the earth is a sphere so the shortest distance between two points on the surface of that shpere is what navigators call a "great circle" route. It will not be directly along longitude line (unless the plane takes off and lands on the equator). If the plane takes off and lands from the same longitude in the northern hemisphere its route of flight will take it north of that longitude. If its does the same in the southern hemisphere, its route will be south of the longitude from which it takes off and lands.
Posted by Jeff Bell | July 16, 2007
Hi, I have been on Aer Lingus flights from Ireland to Los Angeles and have noticed how far north we fly... Ireland is actually pretty far north and since Shannon is one of the westernmost refueling stops, perhaps Shannon is the destination.
Posted by john | July 16, 2007
having flown from london to L.A. many times you fly over greenland and then gradually across Canada from the far north gradually south west wards, entering the US somewhere around Montana, I am kind of shocked that whoever posted this story is unaware of great circle navigation, whereby routes taken appear wildly eccentric on a flat map as they are calculated to take the shortest distance on a cirved surface (i.s. the earth)
Posted by revd clinton crawshaw | July 16, 2007
Regarding the latitude of London and Seattle versus the latitude you saw the contrails, I may stating the obvious, but doesn't the Great Circle route require an elevation in latitude tow work? A visit to the following website may be of interest: http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?MAP-STYLE=&MARKER-STYLE=default&PATH=LHR-SEA&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-STYLE=&PATH-UNITS=mi&RANGE=&RANGE-COLOR=navy&RANGE-STYLE=best&SPEED-GROUND=650&SPEED-UNITS=kts Can't answer the frequency question!
Posted by Anonymous | July 16, 2007
Perhaps those contrails you were seeing was not from aircraft at all but from perhaps superheated space junk falling through our atmosphere, like a meteor but only in the daytime.
Posted by Mike Bissell | July 16, 2007
Yes, Stu, there is a daily flight from Sea-Tac to London. You're right about the frequency being less than the number of contrails; I think there's only one a day. I'd be interested if you learn the source(s). Sure has me curious, too!
Posted by Liz | July 16, 2007
Do a search on chemtrails. I thought as a weatherman you would know about trails from jets that dissipate too slowly to be regular jet trails that are intentionally put into the sky in intricate patterns all over the world. I read they (?)use barium salts and aluminum to control the weather. Another use mentioned is to make some kind of cloud reflector over certain areas for radar or some other such military/industrial complex detection or communication device. I researched chemtrails because of intricate X's I saw made in the sky repeatedly over Loop 360 in Austin, TX while on 4PM breaks.
Posted by Cindy Briggs | July 16, 2007
Stu, You are correct about the contrails that you saw they are traveling from the United States and Canada to the orient. While I cannot account for every aircraft I do know that Northwest Airlines runs its flights from Detroit, Michigan to Japan and onto Manila. Having a limited knowledge of navigation and a fair knowledge of pacific weather this flight path avoids the weather over much of the pacific and allows for the airlines to take advantage of using a curved flight path to actually save distance traveled because of the near spherical nature of our planet
Posted by Gary Bolin | July 15, 2007
That's not a water-only contrail. It has cloud-seeding particles made from silver iodide (a chemical), technically making it a "chemtrail." They're using Welsbach seeding technology. Look it up.
Posted by Anonymous | July 15, 2007
Conspiracy Theory! Secret flights not generally tracked by anyone except NORAD and NATO. Military in nature - relying on the public being to stupid to look up (or far north) and question why flights are following that pattern multiple times. I am sure it must have been a newer, sleeker version of a "New World Order" weather balloon. No use worrying about it... it will too late for we "little people" by time the truth comes out.
Posted by William Bateman | July 15, 2007
A great-circle route from Seattle to London would pass far north of even Quebec. It would go over central Greenland. An east-west flight path crossing Northern Quebec would be consistent with LA - Madrid, or something like Detroit - Oslo
Posted by John M. | July 15, 2007